Rod Ammon: Welcome to the CFITrainer.net podcast. In 2023, NFPA will release a new standard NFPA 1321. It's the standard for Fire Investigation Units and Randy Watson, chair of the NFPA 1321 Technical Committee and current IAAI President will join us today to talk about the new standard and dispel some of the myths about it. Randy is the Director of Technical training for S-E-A, where he coordinates the extensive training and mentoring program for the company's new engineers and investigators. He's an IAAI-CFI and IAAI-CI . In addition to chair NFPA 1321, he has served on an other NFPA Standards committees, uh, technical committees since 1991, including NFPA 1033 and 921. He also serves on ASTM International's E05 Committee on Fire Standards, and the E30 Committee on Forensic Science. Randy has been an IAAI member since 1984. He has served the IAAI in many capacities, including the board of directors as an executive officer, and on numerous committees. He was sworn in as the IAAI's president in April of 2022. You may also recognize Randy from as many classes and presentations at Fire Investigation Industry conferences. Randy, welcome back to the podcast. It's always great to speak to you.

Randy Watson: Good morning, Rod. Thank you for having me. It's always great to be with you and really appreciate everything you, Cathy, and all those that Stonehouse Media do for the IAAI, it really helps us, uh, educate our members and, uh, really appreciate all the work.

Rod Ammon: Wow, that's, we, uh, are grateful for the kind words and, uh, have always felt so good about the work that we get to do. Uh, and again, just thank you. So, NFPA 1321, a new standard in Fire investigation. Let's talk about that. Uh, what's the genesis of 1321?

Randy Watson: Rod 1321 actually came out of the organization of Scientific Area Committees, commonly referred to as OSAC. Uh, that was started in 2014. Uh, one of the subcommittees of OSAC is Fire and Explosion investigation. OSAC was set up to evaluate the current state of forensic science in the United States to improve standards that already exist or identify gaps, uh, that additional standards were needed. Uh, in our committee meeting, an OSAC, one of the gaps that was identified was that of the Fire Investigation Unit. We had 921 that dealt with the investigation and methodology. We had 1033 that talked about the investigator and the qualifications, but there was nothing that addressed the actual investigation unit or entity. As a result, the committee began to discuss that issue. During the discussions, one of our OSAC committee members brought up, one of the largest departments in the country has a huge fire investigation unit.

The training budget for that large department's unit was only $3,000. That is not going to help that investigation unit get better, uh, and do its job more effectively. As a result of all those discussions, the OSAC Committee developed a presentation that was sent to NFPA. The recommendation was that NFPA create a new standard relating to fire investigation units. That was in 2017, with the goal of helping these units, uh, be able to move forward and giving these units something that they can use with decision makers to help them get the resources they need to be able to do their job. So, that, uh, was presented to NFPA in 2017. They, then, the standards council published that request for a new standard in their journal requesting public input. This, this went for about a year. Uh, I was very surprised at the public input that was received. Uh, the, I was expecting the public response to be overwhelmingly negative and not in favor of this, uh, the development of the standard. The response from the stakeholders was about 50 50, 50% in favor, 50% opposed. As a result, NFPA could have basically done anything they wanted to, but in December of 2018, they made the decision to move forward with the program, developing new standard on fire investigation units, and appointed a technical committee in December of 2018 to begin the development of the standard.

Rod Ammon: Wow. It went. So, Uh, it does take quite a bit of time when I look at these things, how many years it goes, you had a letter of recommendation, what that went out in three years ago.

Randy Watson: Uh, uh, the, the initial request for a new standard went out in the fall of 2017. So we've been five years . uh, now, you know, getting to where we are today.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. And I remember you being surprised, uh, when we spoke last about the 50 50 response, which I, I took as a positive thing. Um, I I've heard a lot of, well, I'm sure you've heard more of it, you know, people griping about a, a standard or a guide or, or whatever. So, uh, it, I, I took that as a positive thing. I think you did too.

Randy Watson: Uh, absolutely. And, you know, like NFPA 921, uh, new developments or 1033, uh, people, you know, in the industry tend to have a negative response to it until you've had the opportunity to sit down with them and talk about it and talk about what the reality of it is. Many times after that, they kind of have a, oh, okay, well, that's not what I thought. And, uh, so I agree. I think overall it was a positive response with, uh, you know, many in the industry realizing this could be a help to them,

Rod Ammon: And that's good news. So, how have things been going? Why don't you update us on how the standard has developed since then and, and what stage it's at now?

Randy Watson: The committee was appointed in December of 2018. Our first, uh, call was in January to begin the process of working on the document in 2019. Uh, that began with, uh, an outline of the document. Uh, the first goal we had to do was define what a fire investigation unit was, and then move into what the committee felt the document would look like from an outline standpoint. Uh, that took place, uh, and was brought back to the committee of for an outline. Once the outline was approved, uh, I was able to assign task groups for each chapter, uh, or the main chapters four through eight to outline the individual chapter. Those outlines were then brought back to the full committee to make sure each task group was on the right direction that the committee felt was appropriate. Uh, once that was done, the committees went forward fleshing out the outlines, uh, that happened throughout 2018, or I'm sorry, 2019, uh, with, uh, the outlines being, uh, prepared, uh, input being given.

Once the document draft was completed, then it was sent to the standards council. Uh, the standards council is the issuing body of NFPA for all new standards, and they issued the document to receive public input. Uh, that public input, uh, proceeded through 2021, uh, and ended January of this year. Uh, the committee, uh, received about 240 public inputs to the document. Uh, these ranged from, uh, to stop the document. We actually had some public inputs to stop the document, uh, and all throughout, and it was really good to see that amount of public input and interest into the document. Uh, the committee met, uh, in, uh, late spring to review all the public inputs, uh, the committees required by NFPA regulations to look at each public input and made revisions to the document. Uh, those revisions that the committee made was published, uh, this fall.

The document is now open for public comment. Uh, that public comment period will close January, uh, the first week of January. Once it closes, then our committee will be meeting, likely in May to review all the public comments with a comment report being prepared and published likely in October of 2023. If we see no appeals to the document, uh, at that point, we will likely have a consensus standard, which would be published in the early part of 2024. So it's all, in all from the committee being appointed in December of 2018 to a document being on the street is, is going to be, you know, a little over five years.

Rod Ammon: Well, it's nice to know that there are so many opportunities for folks that are in the industry to give input. Um, not to mention you've gotta, usually a good size committee of people that represent the, you know, the industry very well. So, that all sounds good to me. You feel good about it?

Randy Watson: Yes. I think one of the things that makes the NFPA process, uh, what it is and has made 921 and 1033, the documents they are, is that process of having public input, public comment, and the ability to appeal the committee's decision. Uh, me I've always invited people to come to our committee meetings, uh, at any time we're having them just to see the process, and they're always very surprised at the openness, uh, of the process and how it works. So, uh, I'm, I'm very happy with the NFPA process. I think it leads to the documents being better and the industry, uh, being helped and made better as it goes.

Rod Ammon: Seems like it. Um, so 2024, if everything works out right, um, we'll have a new standard. So who is the standard for,

Randy Watson: Uh, that was one of the things that's in chapter one of the document. It applies to the public and private, uh, fire investigation units. Uh, the committee defined during the public input stage, a fire investigation unit as a standalone public or private sector agency or company that consists of two or more investigators with responsibility for fire and explosion investigation. So this is going to apply to public and private. Uh, that was one of our public comments that we had, was this should only apply to public, uh, but this will apply public and private, uh, and two units that consist of more than two people, or two or more people, uh, to, uh, be able to identify who it applies to, and that it is across the board. So it's not putting a burden just on one sector. Uh, the committee felt that to make this applicable across the board and to improve the profession, it should apply to both public and private sector.

Rod Ammon: Okay. So what's the general approach? I mean, how specific does this standard get to an organization? And, and you're saying, you know, with two or more people, that's a, a small unit, and I'm sure in some people they're, they're concerned what

Randy Watson: Uh, absolutely. Uh, there is, there is concern through the industry on what this may require. Uh, the easy way to explain how 1321 is going to apply is it will require the units to have policies to address various parts of, uh, their operations. One of the challenges, uh, with many departments is they do things, but if what they do is ever challenged, there's nothing for them to go back to, to say, this is what we're abiding by. Uh, this is going to ask them to have policies, uh, to address various aspects of what they do. What this document will not do is tell them or require what the policies must be. Uh, and that's an important aspect because the policy for evidence, per se, for ATF, is going to be significantly different than the policy that this small three or four or five man unit will have, which will be different than what this private investigation firm will have. So, it's not getting into the details of what the policy relating to evidence must be, but it is talking in a little more general terms that you need to have a policy, and these are some of the things that policy should address. Uh, and then it is more up to the individual units to develop the policy and word the policy in such a way that meets the spirit, but also addresses the needs of the agency.

Rod Ammon: Do you think most units, especially small ones, have experience in writing a policy?

Randy Watson: Uh, the, I believe the short answer to that is no. Uh, and that is why, uh, one, this committee is going to be working to develop some example of policies. Uh, and that is also why the IAAI is developing a program specifically related to this standard to be able to assist these agencies. Um, one of the things that IAAI is doing is developed a program because many of these agencies don't have the experience or the background on policies. So this program is going to help in many ways, related to the standard, but part of that is going to be policies. Another aspect of this, uh, is in chapter one, it talks about, for many agencies, there are parent apparent organization will have policies. Uh, you know, if you're a part of a larger department, uh, that department likely has policies related to budget and management systems and things like that.

If the parent organization has the policy in place, you don't need to develop a separate policy. You would be considered, you know, in compliance, for lack of a better word, because the parent organization already has the policy. So part of this is going to be training, uh, which is where the IAAI is going to step in and provide training to help, uh, organizations develop policies, giving them examples. And, you know, I am in hopes that, uh, the 1321 committee will also be developing those, uh, examples so that an organization can use an example to help build the policies that they need to put in place.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, I think that'll be very helpful. I remember when starting a business, God, my first one back in like 1980, and everybody told me, oh, you have to have a business plan, you know, and, uh, I was like, yeah, okay.

Randy Watson: your business plan was not to go bankrupt at that point.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. And, uh, you know, and, and basically I had to go looking at other business plans. So, I mean, you know, that's how many of us learn. Um, so I've got notes here to focus a little bit on chapters four through eight. And, and I'm wondering if you could tell us at sort of a high level what each of those chapters covers?

Randy Watson: Uh, absolutely. Uh, the first three chapters in every NFPA document is the same. Uh, you've got administration, you've got references, and you've got definitions. Uh, the meat and potatoes of any NFPA standards starts at chapter four. Uh, in 1321, we have chapters four through eight, which are the meat and potatoes of the document itself. Chapter four talks about organizational systems or management systems. And within it, we talk about organizational systems, process systems, and then management systems. Uh, these are more of, uh, general and a little higher level, uh, systems and policies to have in place. Chapter five moves into, uh, resources, facilities, and equipment, uh, talking about your, your resources, uh, how to, you know, having a policy about how do you get additional resources, uh, if what you're facing exceeds your manpower or expertise, uh, talks about indoor and outdoor facilities, uh, and then systems and equipment.

You know, what equipment do we need? How do we get that equipment? Uh, this chapter five was significantly, uh, edited during the public input phase. Uh, it had gotten a little too deep into the weeds of, rather than policies getting more toward what was required, which was a little outside of what the intent of the document was. Uh, chapter six moves into a incredibly important, important section, uh, that IAAI has been, uh, the leader in emphasizing health and safety. Uh, unfortunately, we've lost too many members over the last few years to cancer and related health issues. So, chapter six talks about, uh, health and safety. Chapter seven is a chapter that has, uh, a lot of people's attention because it talks about education, training, and certification. Uh, you know, it links to 1033, uh, when it talks about any types of certification or training. Uh, one of the, uh, things that's important for our listeners to understand is when this committee was put together, the scope of the committee specifically excluded the committee from being able to address techniques and methodology, which is covered in 921, as well as qualifications, which is addressed in 1033. So you will see in this section, you know, references to 1033 concerning those specific topics. And, you know, some of the things that talks about in there under, for example, professional development, uh, for example, it says, the FIU shall have a policy to provide funding support and opportunities for continuing professional development. Uh, you know, I'm in hopes that fire investigation units can take this document, and in particular, this chapter to decision makers, whether it be the fire chief, the police chief, uh, city manager, city council, county council, and use this to say, we need the funding to be able to do our jobs and do it correctly, because there's so much, uh, on the line based on what we do.

And then the final chapter talks about documentation and reports. Uh, you know, these, again, this ties back to 1033, uh, the JPRs that are associated with it. And it also talks about, uh, providing the necessary equipment, you know, and policies related to that for proper documentation. And then the last part of that chapter talks about reports. You know, everybody hates the, the paperwork, but it's a necessary evil in this business. And it talks about, uh, you know, quality assurance and control, uh, the administrative and technical review process. So that's kind of a high level look at what the document's going to be. And each one of these chapters is gonna talk about the policies related to those specific items.

Rod Ammon: You know, as an outsider looking in one of the lucky guys who doesn't have to learn all of the code and, and the things that, that you all have to live by, um, I feel as though you've spent a lot of time, and, and the committee has spent a lot of time trying to make sure that, as you said, you know, we'll send you over to 1033. You're used to that. That's where you get that information. You're going to 921 that's gonna give you, you know, your process and some of these things. So it feels like it, it makes sense, and it, it, and is really well thought out. Um, and when I hear about these new standards, I, I, we often hear rumbles in the industry, and we've already brought this up a little bit, so I don't wanna dwell on it, but could you talk about some of the more specific misconceptions or concerns, fears you've heard?

Randy Watson: Yeah, I, I think, you know, uh, the fire investigation community is no different than everywhere, everyone else. It's the, uh, the fear of the unknown. And, uh, the, the other thing that our profession is guilty of is the fear of what they've heard, uh, versus the reality. Uh, you know, I've had many, you know, express concerns that, well, we don't, you know, need another document telling us what to do. Uh, and, but most of them have never read a draft or anything of the document. So I will send them to the NFPA website where they can read a draft of the document as it stands. Uh, I think the, the, the big, two big fears that I've heard is not being able to comply. Uh, and once I walk them through that, this is not a document says, your policy for X must be A, B, C, it is simply saying that you should have a policy related to this specific topic.

We'll use evidence, uh, that in many ways seems to, uh, you know, allay some of the fears that they have. The other, uh, concern was that many saw this as, uh, being something that would require an accreditation. And, uh, part of that is, again, the rumor mill, which is always very good and rampant within this profession, But, uh, also just not understanding, uh, the process. All NFPA standards are voluntary standards to start with, and there's nothing in this document that requires cert, uh, accreditation. However, I firmly believe there will be, uh, you know, accrediting bodies that will take this standard to develop an accreditation, uh, should a fire investigation unit want to pursue accreditation. The other part of that is, uh, while, you know, third party accreditation is a, is a good, good thing. It is very expensive and agency can adopt this standard. And then self accredit that everything we are doing meets this standard. Here is our policies, here's our procedures, here is what we're doing, and all that we are doing is in compliance with this standard. So I think part of it is the, uh, rumor mill and misconceptions. Uh, but I, I do think it is providing the, uh, industry some direction and guidance, uh, that is needed.

Rod Ammon: Okay. I, I'm, I'm thinking, again, putting on my fire investigator hat and, and reading through some of the notes, and I'm thinking about cross-examination. You know, I know 921 is put people in fear. Um, what, what about cross-examination for somebody who's on a unit? How's it gonna affect them?

Randy Watson: Uh, I, I don't, I really don't see, uh, the investigator being challenged in cross-examination with this standard. Uh, what I can envision is an investigator's on the stand, and possibly his evidence is being challenged, and he is questioned about, uh, the policy that the agency has relating to evidence, storage, handling, tagging, and things like that. Uh, that is where I can see the, but I don't, I don't foresee the investigator being, well, is your unit in compliance with, you know, NFPA 1321? You never know what you can be asked, but the, uh, the main emphasis is on the policies. So do you have a policy related to evidence? Yes. What is your policy? Did you comply with that policy? Yes. So I think that's where you may see the questions come.

Rod Ammon: Okay. I had one other note that, uh, relating to the amount of work, some people are concerned that 1321 is gonna create a lot of work. What do you have to say to them?

Randy Watson: This, this question has come up. Uh, as, as a matter of fact, uh, it came up just recently when I was speaking in Ohio. Uh, and part of the presentation I was doing was related to this. And, uh, the person I was talking to was in a leadership role within their fire investigation unit. And he said, you know, this isn't really telling us anything we shouldn't already be doing, but it is telling us that we need to get it done. And his comment was, A lot of what is covered, we're already addressing, but there are some things that we're kind of weak in that we need to button up. So I think yes, if they have, if a investigation unit has nothing, uh, there's, there's gonna be work to do, but there's also gonna be help out there through IAAI, uh, and others.

You know, uh, we are very much a community within the fire investigation industry. Uh, one of the strengths we have is our group. So if one unit is lacking in one area, reach out to others that maybe are further along and, and get that help and advice that you need. Uh, in the long run, it will save us, uh, down the road. And it will also save some of these units because we live in a very litigious world now. And, you know, a fire investigation unit, whether it's public or private, could be sued at any time. And, you know, that unit can go back to, yes, we have a policy related to this, and we complied with our policy. That's gonna go a long way in helping them if they find themself in that situation.

Rod Ammon: Okay. So you've been around for the release of some standards in the past, and, and we've already talked about the reaction of the fire investigation community, um, and you've, you've lived through them, um, through these reactions and, and then watching as, as things mature, uh, people learn about how to use the standard. What's your expectation with 1321 about how it'll evolve into the industry?

Randy Watson: I think 1321 is going to be just like 921, 1033, and more, particularly in specific areas. Uh, if you remember, uh, we did a CFITrainer module on, uh, negative corpus several years ago. uh, when that first came out in 921, uh, there was a tremendous outcry. 921 evolved and improved it better explain things, better address things, and it took a couple of additions to get that language where it needed to be. I think the same thing is going to be true of 1321. Uh, initially it's put together by a committee, uh, a balanced committee from diverse backgrounds. We get public input, which makes the document better. We get public comments that makes the document better. Then the document is pushed out. The next edition of this document, there will be a lot of public input because now they've got the document to look at.

That next cycle of public input of public comments is going to improve the standard significantly. So each addition is going to evolve and improve, and I think it will take, you know, another addition to get this document where it needs to be. Uh, because it, it takes, you know, while we've got a good committee that is working hard, it takes all of the stakeholders and the community involvement to help the document mature, as you said. And I, that's a very good word, to mature and evolve to where it is really the beneficial standard that we hope it will be for the industry.

Rod Ammon: Okay. Yeah. I, I, and I guess ultimately, when I think about my exposure to all the different fire ex fire investigators that I've been with, as much as they push back on some of these standards, they hold them just as tight. Um, you know, later on down the road, they'll, you'll get into a conversation and they'll grab their 921 or their 1033 very very tightly. Uh, so

Randy Watson: A absolutely, I mean, uh, I, I can remember when 921 first come out, uh, and, uh, my supervisor at that time walked into my office and threw the document on my desk and said, you guys are gonna have us wearing lab coats and pocket protectors before it's over with. And, uh, and like you say, now, every conference you go to, they're gonna talk about 921 and the JPRs of 1033 every conference. And most conferences are designed around those two documents. So it, it does take time.

Rod Ammon: And quite frankly, uh, most of CFITrainer has been built on those documents. Uh,

Randy Watson: Absolutely.

Rod Ammon: So, you know, there's strength in this structure that sometimes feels confining. Uh, and, and I, I don't know, I just hope everybody sees it that way. And, and as you've said, you know, gets that extra support to do the training, the more than $3,000 in a, in a large in a large, uh, unit, that just seems painful. So I hope, I hope we do see better training and education coming out of this for a lot of the people who want it.

Randy Watson: Absolutely.

Rod Ammon: What do you see as specific uses of the standard?

Randy Watson: Uh, I, I believe once people understand it, it's going to, uh, lend to much better operations of units. Because as they develop policies, when you think about writing a policy for how you're going to handle evidence, it will make you better at handling evidence. So I, I think the evolution is gonna be, as the policies are developed, it's gonna make the units better. Uh, I think it's going to allow these units to have something with, uh, I'll use the word teeth in it, although it, again, it's a voluntary standard that they can go to decision makers and, and request funds or, or apply for grants to help them get the equipment, the training, uh, the support they need. Because many times, the Fire Investigation Unit, they end up getting the crumbs that are left over from the agency or department. Uh, you know, if you're in a fire department and a part of a fire investigation unit, you know, the money goes to the big red trucks. The Fire Investigation Unit is kinda left with, okay, what have we got left over that we can give to this group? And help these agencies understand the importance of fire investigation and how it is a life safety issue to save lives, to improve products. Uh, so I'm in hopes that this can be used by units and the units leadership to go to decision makers to get them the resources they need.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. And it sounds like, uh, that would affect everything from how you're hired, uh, training, accreditation, resources that you need, um, as well as dealing with regulation in your area, correct?

Randy Watson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.

Rod Ammon: Um, well, it sounds good to me, but I don't have to learn all of it. I, I, and I, I look forward, you know, to being part of what, of what we do to train people how to use it. Um, everybody's got a year to think about it or to, to get a, I guess once public comment comes in, they can get up on the website, read that, and, uh, make comments if they want to. So everybody has a chance to be part of this. And anything else that you wanted to say before we wrap up? 1321?

Randy Watson: No, I think, uh, the comments you just made is really important. Uh, very seldom, when I'm giving presentations, I will ask people to raise if they have made any efforts to pr put in a public comment or public, uh, input. And it's very seldom that anyone raises their hand. Uh, the, you, you, as a user of this or part of this industry, have the ability to have an impact. So don't just res have to respond to what is being done, have a part in being involved in shaping what is being done, uh, that will make the documents and the industry better.

Rod Ammon: God, I love all that. Um, now I'm thinking about you. You've been, uh, been president for what, since April, uh, of the IAAI, and I'm wondering if we could take a few minutes to talk about you and, and your presidency.

Randy Watson: Uh, it's, uh, it, it's been interesting for sure,

Rod Ammon: . Well, I know it's, it's a lot more than I think a lot of people who run for president expect it to be. So let's start out with, you know, what were your goals and how you feeling? You're moving ahead on this.

Randy Watson: There, there is no training course to, uh, that you can go to, to, to become president. Uh, it's, you know, you raise your hand and then suddenly you are him or her . Uh, you know, goals are often modified based on the circumstances we're facing. Uh, Jacksonville was our first ITC in two years. Uh, our association was, in my opinion, fractured, uh, because we weren't able to be together, and we as an association are stronger when we're together. Uh, as a result of that, the theme of my speech at the banquet was Rise up Together and Strive for Excellence. So the first and primary goal for me was to, uh, to bring us together, you know, as members as chapters. Uh, you know, and I looked at this as two parts. The first was for us to really engage our students and new investigators. Uh, Rod, as you well know, having been at many of our ITCs, uh, when you're up at the head table and you look out, we're a very graying profession.

You know, I use the words, there's a lot of gray hair and no hair sitting out there in the audience. Uh, we need these students and new investigators coming behind us to be the leaders needed to move our association forward. And if we don't engage them and raise them up, then it's our fault if they don't become, the leaders needed to move our association. The second part was to have our board be out and engaging our chapters and our members, both sharing and listening. As we do this, we learn and grow. And we have been, as a board, been out visiting chapters, engaging with members, doing that, listening, doing that, sharing. Uh, and that has been a significant impact both on the board itself and on the members and the chapters. You know, additionally, a main goal was to finally get a strategic plan that would provide a strategy for the vision and direction of our association. Uh, instead of like being a sailboat, being blown about by the circumstances with no rudder, uh, we wanted to put a rudder on the IAAI ship that would provide us guidance and direction and kind of an anchor point. So if circumstances like a global pandemic blows us off course, it gives us something to come back to. Uh, and that was a, a huge goal to get us on track for that.

Rod Ammon: So what do you think one of the best things to happen? And I don't think looking back three, four years is fair because it's, it's certainly been tough. I think Rick Jones of, of all the guys got the toughest presidency in the history of the IAAI. But, um, what, what's one of your favorite things that you've seen happen in the past? I don't know, past years?

Randy Watson: Uh, you know, when you think of, say the last five or six years, you can't do that without, you know, uh, that little thing called covid. Yeah. You know, which this kind of devastated the world. We lost, you know, many members. Uh, you know, however, I think part of what I'm proud of is the, IAAI not only survived during that time, but in many ways was able to thrive, uh, within a month or so of everything being shut down. Our T and E committee pivoted to push out a, uh, a schedule for seven virtual classes. Uh, and that was something we had never really done before. We had CFITrainer, but as a IAAI, we had never really done virtual training. Uh, you know, the pandemic forced us to adapt to the circumstances in order to provide quality training to our members in the midst of a shutdown.

Uh, this virtual training, uh, was done very quickly. Uh, and it provided our members with the necessary training and resources. It just so happened that we had a new copy of 921 that had just been out. So that provided a great platform to be able to move forward with. Uh, so that virtual training not only thrived during the pandemic, but has now become part of our, uh, training portfolio to be able to educate our members. You know, uh, the second very important move was, as I just mentioned, this strategic plan. You know, and in the past, there's been a lack of consistency from administration to the next. One president would set an agenda going one direction. The next president may set an agenda going a completely different direction. Uh, and the agreement on a strategic plan by the board, uh, provides that consistency, uh, in direction for the next three to four years.

Uh, what is also important is that the executive team, which consists of not only the president and the immediate past president, but the first and second vice president are also, uh, on board with this plan and direction. So, something that may be started by me during my term as president, uh, can be picked up and, uh, carried forward as part of that plan, because the strategic plan provides us that prism by which we can look at everything and go, is this consistent with our strategic plan? If it is, where does it fit? And let's place it there. If it doesn't, then maybe that's something we should be working on right now. So I think those have been some of the biggest moves that the association has done that can set the stage for the future.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. You know, and I'm gonna risk saying this, and you could tell me, I have to edit it out, but I don't think you will. I, uh, I think you would be happy to see members sometimes coming to a board meeting and just, just to, you know, learn what's going on in there and, and see what it takes to get to, to hear all these voices from around the world, and then put together a, a strategic plan that hopefully is embracing all of the chapters and, and everybody around the globe.

Randy Watson: And, and it's interesting, you should make that comment. Uh, this year, for the first time that I'm aware of, we are having two in-person board meetings. Uh, we had our first in-person board meeting in Savannah in conjunction with the Georgia Chapter Conference. The Georgia Chapters Board was invited to our meeting. Uh, and they are open to the public unless the board goes into executive session, uh, that allows the members and the boards to engage with all of our board members and us to engage with them. Again, that listening and sharing. Uh, in January, uh, we will have our second in-person board meeting, and that will be in conjunction with the, uh, UK chapter, uh, at, uh, just outside of London. Again, we will be able to engage that chapter, have them involved, participate, attend our board meeting us, attend their board, meeting their conference, engage with them, uh, because I think it's important as a, as a board, as an association that we remember the first letter in IAAI stands for international.

Rod Ammon: How about it.

Randy Watson: And by engaging with these chapters, uh, that are non-US base, it helps them feel more of a part. Uh, I've, uh, attended virtually, uh, the chapter 79 and our new Chile chapter event, which I was supposed to attend in person. But, uh, you know, there were some things that took place that I wasn't able to go, and the first annual conference for our Central European chapter. Uh, so engaging those chapters and encouraging them to engage with us, uh, is really important. And another aspect of that is, uh, establishing an international advisory panel that will be falling under our membership committee, made up of members representing various regions around the world to, again, help engage them and understand issues that they have that we can assist with.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, I think it's great. I, I, you know, I know throughout the years, it's always been, well, should we spend the money, uh, to travel? And then at the same time, it's like, look, this is is an international organization. And everything I've seen from when I went over, uh, and was experienced what was going on in the UK with the board meetings, it was excellent. Uh, first of all, you saw people from other countries that could more easily travel to London than perhaps Kentucky or, North Carolina. So, you know, the whole experience, I just was so good for the board members themselves and for the members of the organization. So, good for you.

Randy Watson: I, I think, I think engaging that, the Central European chapter had their first conference, and I was able to attend it virtually, uh, at their conference. They had members from 11 different countries, and, and it was held in Milan, Italy, but they had members from 11 different countries at that conference. Uh, so having that ability to engage with them was, was extremely exciting.

Rod Ammon: Beautiful. So, let's, uh, let's break, let's have some breaking news. What, what are you excited about, uh, for IAAI, I mean, you're, I guess, halfway in, um, the time flies when you're president, but what, what are you excited about as, uh, we, we start to breach 2023?

Randy Watson: Uh, the thing that excites me the most is when I go to these various chapters and interact with the various boards and members, is to see their excitement. Uh, excitement and enthusiasm is contagious. Uh, you know, I've seen chapters that have never had a scholarship program for students or new investigators develop scholarship programs. I've seen chapters that had an existing, uh, scholarship program that has expanded it. Instead of just doing one person for a scholarship, maybe they're doing two or three. What's even more exciting is seeing members get excited about that scholarship program and a member stepping up and saying, well, if the chapter's gonna offer a scholarship, I'll pay for their lodging, or I will pay, uh, for their meals and take them out to, uh, to dinner. You know, beautiful. This kind of paying it forward and seeing our association so engaged with each other is exciting for me.

Uh, and it goes back to that rise up together and strive for excellence. Uh, you know, something else is very exciting, uh, for this coming year is at the ITC in Cherokee. We will be bringing back the poster program that was started by the late Jamie Novak, uh, that, uh, he started several years ago to provide a, a platform that students, investigators can present their research projects to the membership. And what is interesting is when this program was being done, 100% of the students that participated in the poster program had job offers when they graduated. Awesome. That's, that's the kind of stuff that is exciting to me. It's, it's that strength of rising up together, but to push for excellence as we move forward.

Rod Ammon: And there's some of your background in mentoring, you know, that's probably why S-E-A has, uh, grabbed hold and let you take that mentoring role. And, and I think you've always been great at that. Um, so

Randy Watson: I, I appreciate those kind words. Uh, the more you mentor, uh, the better it makes you, and, and hopefully it helps the person you're mentoring as well.

Rod Ammon: Well, it also helps get a little bit less gray out that audience when you're looking at ITC. So, uh,

Randy Watson: Absolutely.

Rod Ammon: I, since you said pay it forward, I thought I, I would mention this, I hadn't planned on it, but Jerry Naylis, who's a past president and who's been on many boards and done countless of things for the, IAAI has put out a challenge, uh, to folks to support CFITrainer and, uh, the foundation, the IAAI's Foundation as well. So, uh, just just so folks know, uh, Jerry had a rough year. Uh, he made a decision that he wanted to make a long-term donation of a thousand dollars a year, uh, to the IAAI, and he's challenging people to put support into CFITrainer and into the foundation. Uh, so just, just a word for you folks out there. You're gonna be getting some emails that tell Jerry's story. Uh, I would hope that people take the time to read that and understand, you know, what he's trying to do.

Randy Watson: I, I, you know, Rod, I think it's, uh, amazing what past President Naylis is doing. It, it really shows his heart, uh, when you talk about mentoring, uh, uh, there's untold numbers of people that Jerry is, uh, mentored over the years. And, uh, he talked to me about this initiative and I was excited. Uh, but it, it goes to show his heart and his, uh, desire to see this association get better and progress. And, uh, so I'm excited to see this initiative get started and to see what, what can be accomplished in the years to come, uh, through Jerry's heart and this idea that he has.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, absolutely. So people can go, um, to the donate button that they'll see in their email, or they can go, go up to the foundation site. Uh, and there, there are places that you can make your donation. You just, there's a big banner on the front that says, donate now. And, uh, they can make either contributions to the foundation programs, or specifically to the CFITrainer.net drive that, uh, Jerry started for this holiday. So we're gonna be getting this podcast out for the end of the year. And, uh, any donations that people make are a tax deductive, uh, depending on where they live, but, uh, there's a tax deduction that they can take. So, as you said, you know, very grateful for what Jerry's done for the organization and, uh, and, and the commitment that he is made here. I am grateful for your time, really. Am I, I, uh, I'm wondering if there's anything else that we've missed, anything that you wanna get out to the audience?

Randy Watson: Uh, no. Again, I just appreciate all the, the work that, uh, you and Cathy and all the folks at Stonehouse, uh, due to, uh, help the IAAI get its message out. Uh, I wanna thank all the members for their efforts, uh, for taking what they do so seriously, committing the time for training, uh, and then sharing with others. Uh, that's what this association is all about, and it's exciting to see where it's going to go in the years to come.

Rod Ammon: I love the way you say that, Randy. I'll let you wrap. That's the wrap. You have a great time, uh, uh, throughout the holiday, and I hope you have a great new year and, and from all of us, thank you very much. Randy Watson: Uh, it's, uh, happy to be here. And, uh, very happy holidays to, uh, your staff and all of our members out there.

Rod Ammon: Thank you, Randy. Be well.

Earlier in the podcast, I mentioned Jerry Naylis' great challenge and donation to the IAAI and CFITrainer. But I want to be clear about how the money is spent. The contributions that you make will go directly to the operating expenses of production and technology. While we rely on grant funding, we need to be ready for when a grant application may not go through, or when the funding ends in any way. We need to keep CFITrainer.Net going, and to do so, we need your help for the future. You can go to firearson.com, CFITtrainer.Net, or the foundation's website off of firearson.com, and click on one of the links to give to CFITrainer or to the foundation. Your help makes a big difference. To all of you, we wish you the best during the holidays. We hope you stay safe, have wonderful travels, get to be with your families, and move on into 2023 with a healthy and prosperous year.

This podcast and CFITrainer.Net are made possible by funding from a Fire Prevention and Safety Grant. From the Assistance to Firefighters Grant program, administered by FEMA and the US Department of Homeland Security, there's also support from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, and voluntary online donations from CFITrainer.Net users and podcast listeners, thanks for joining us today on this podcast. Stay safe and we'll see you next year. Peace.

NFPA 1321: Standard for Fire Investigation Units. National Fire Protection Association.